Musings on a dormant band...

[revid]

A recent post on the GDA forum set me to thinking a few days ago. What makes this post even more interesting is who the author is.


How do you guys feel about the band now? I'm sure a lot of us aren't as "obsessive" as when American Idiot came out, but how do you feel the past 3 years since the last album came out?



I gotta admit, I lost some respect for the guys. This total lack of updates and semi-veil of secrecy with everything is a major turn-off because it feels like they've given fans next to nothing to keep them interested. I mean, even after Warning they still gave the occasional random update on greenday.com until American Idiot was announced and got close to being released.

I still listen to the music about once a week, and am still waiting anxiously for new material. I just feel like they totally ruined an easy oppurtunity to keep their new fans interested in them. To me, they're losing (or lost) that quality I liked before when I first got into them, that they seemed like normal guys just having a good time, who at least gave the fans some reason to keep paying attention during the time they weren't on tour. I've said it before that they totally blundered the whole Idiot Club thing, and when I was asked to help out with their new site I was really looking forward to getting this point across. But, i haven't talked to them since early December, gotten no update - and the update I did get and posted up I was told to remove because "we like to stay tight-lipped about everything." That really kinda just pushed me over the edge with them. Cause i'll be honest, I've never done this job with the expectation to get anything out of it from the band. It was a huge plus that their manager contacted me. But every time I've asked for an update, or they promised to do the Q&A's they just fall through.

It's really damned annoying. And i just wanted to vent about it. I look around my room and see all the posters and realize all the time I've spent the past 4 years working on GDA and wonder if it'll ever be worth it. The band is not interested in it's fans on even a basic simple level of just sending an email once or twice a year letting us know whats going on (aside from their charity stuff, which i think is a bit ridiculous. Why should we care what charity they're supporting if thats the only time they want to speak up. If they feel that they don't owe us anything aside from their music, they why should they assume anyone cares to give them anymore than their $12 for the album). They set the bar so low for what they've given us that anything minor thing seems like such a huge accomplishment.

source

The poster is Andres, the lead administrator of Green Day Authority. I'm sure when he posted he was particularly disillusioned about something, but he does have some good points. And when I read it, it brought out some sadness in me to have to agree with so much of it.

This is now a 15 page thread with a lot of the usual 14 yo GDA idiot comments, but there are also some well thought out posts that try to answer the question: What, if anything, does a band owe its fans?

There were more than a few comments from people who have several thousand posts on GDA but said they never listened to Green Day at all anymore. Just looking at our little corner of the fandom, we can all think of plenty of folks who have drifted away and may never come back, including some mighty fine writers (*eyes canis_takahari or letterbomb_baby*)

My personal feeling is that four years is too long between recordings for a band that wants to remain relevant, and now Green Day's done that twice. At least between Warning and AI, they toured (Pop Disaster) and made the occasional update to the fan club web site. But on the other hand, American Idiot made GD relevant again, and lightning can strike twice. Anyone that knows me knows that I don't believe Green Day are irrelevant by any stretch, but let's face it, just like the real world, the music scene is all about "What have you done for me lately?"

Does the band owe me anything? No, not at all. They don't even owe me a new record-- after all, they've put out seven albums for me to listen to and enjoy, who says I get to have an eighth?

Truthfully, I do not believe for one nanosecond that Green Day do not care about their fans. We've all seen far too much evidence to the contrary. But the analogy that springs to mind is that even when you know to metaphysical certitude that your significant other loves you, it's still nice to hear it once in a while.

But who am I kidding? I'll be the last one jumping off the sinking ship. And about a year from now, I have a sneaking suspicion that all will be forgiven.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I ripped the 7 Feb 2005 London show into video iPod compatible format yesterday for and_ed, and there's no sense letting the links go to waste. Even if you don't have a video iPod, you can still watch it on your computer if you don't have this show. This is one of the shows where they ditched the usual set list and played the entire AI album. Quality is A+. Highly recommended.


File Name: apolloPt1.mp4
Size: 182MB | Description: Apollo 7 Feb 2005 Part 1

http://www.sendspace.com/file/oyrqkx

File Name: apolloPt2.mp4
Size: 181MB | Description: Apollo 7 Feb 2005 Part 2

http://www.sendspace.com/file/b0q3u0

Enjoy!

Comments

[beatupcar.livejournal.com]

I have posted a few times in that thread and to be honest it makes me sad and a little angry. After reading through it I saw people were getting on other peoples cases just because they still loved the band - thats messed up. Some people on there are such hypocrites.

But I agree with everything you have said. I do think that 4 years is too long, but I know that it will be worth the wait once it's here. Then we can all throw ourselves back into the madness again.

[revid.livejournal.com]

I thought that might might be your user name. :-) There are also a lot of trolls who posted there too, just for effect. I found some of the discussion very interesting. It's not just the four years, but the last two years with nothing. Metallica goes 4 years w/o a new album, but at least they're touring all the time. And it's nice that we had the Superdome, and American Idol, and even The Simpsons Movie, but it's not the same.

[feels-like-fire.livejournal.com]

You and I already talked about this at length in IM, but I figured I oughta leave a comment, too... mostly because re-reading Andres' comments makes me sad all over again. Sigh.

I agree—waiting for a Presidential election to come around again is NOT a good time period between albums, and I'm sick of waiting. I think perhaps I'm too in love with Green Day and their music (and too easily pleased) to be disappointed, exactly, in the lack of fan service—like you, I know damn well that they do love their fans—but the longtime radio silence is certainly depressing. I miss them. I wish they'd come back. /rambling you've heard 823987293847 times before

[revid.livejournal.com]

And it's true what I said, as soon as they come back around, all will be forgiven. There's no way I can hold a grudge against them.

[and-ed.livejournal.com]

I understand Andres' frustration, though I'm not sure I'd have expressed it so strongly. I have no intention of going through the comments but I'm sure there are some crazy ones, on both extremes.

I don't like blind adoration of celebs. I know I've talked about that with you before. I can't stand it when people get all 'how dare you say one unkind/unflattering/remotely snarky comment about my *insert fandom name here*' To me, that kind of devotion doesn't mean anything...if you're feeling like "I will love you completely and unconditionally no matter what you say or do". That's for your kids, man...and maybe your spouse and your bestbestBEST friends, to a point, but for your fandom? Nuh-uh. I love Green Day collectively and Billie, Mike and Tre...because of their music and because of the people I, clueless fan, perceive them to be. Because I love them so much, I would probably forgive a lot before I'd stop...but I do respect someone's right to feel like they've been let down for whatever reason and thus change their opinion of the band or the level of their fandom. I think its sad, but that's a personal thing.

But for me personally, I don't feel that they OWE me anything. I've paid for their music - I've got enjoyment out of it. I bought concert tickets - I got what I paid for. I feel like anything they do beyond that is a bonus. That said, I do think its good business, on their part, to keep their relationship going with their fans during breaks, especially an interminable break like this one because people WILL drift away and maybe not come back to buy the new product when its available. So I think its bad for business to keep everything tight lipped for four fucking years.

However...and I don't pretend to know the guys at all so this is just my perception of them...I feel like they're good guys, on a personal level and that they do care about their fans, beyond the dollar signs but I would agree that they've not been very good about showing that lately.

This doesn't make me angry so much as it concerns me, chronic worrier that you know me to be. My mind doesn't go "no news/updates/anything from Green Day - I'm very mad at them". Oh no...my mind goes right to "no news/updates/anything from Green Day - something must be wrong!" Hence my hopefully irrational panic over anything solo-ish. I don't think their silence - and the collective silence of the Green Day camp comes from any kind of 'who gives a shit about the fans, I'm having a nice break here' attitude. I honestly think its been because there's been nothing to say...because they don't KNOW when a new album is coming out...because they can't agree on what they want a new album to be/say...because they don't know musically where they are right now...and like I say, that worries me more rather than makes me angry.

Having said all that, though...I remain optimistic, because I'm genetically incapable of NOT being optimistic. I am annoyed and frustrated at having to wait so long, but I'm still firmly ensconced on the Green Day bandwagon and have no intention of leaping off unless something really drastic happens. We WILL get a new album and we WILL get a new tour and we WILL have our crazy LJ fandom reunion in LA/SanFran/all points in between. I am, however, now counting on it happening this year and seriously if we're not all together at a Green Day concert by November, I'll...well, lets be honest, I'll just rant some more about it, but it will be a very strongly worded rant. And while I'm feeling quite annoyed with the boys at present, because we HAVE gone too freaking long without a word from them, honestly, all its gonna take is one great first single and that first promotional interview with them all happy and excited and TOGETHER and I will forgive all. I'm easy that way. ;)

Sorry for the epic babble, Mary. *blushes* And thanks for the downloads! That's gonna make my flight much more endurable. =)

[revid.livejournal.com]

You see Barb, this is why you're on my flist : So I can just copy what you write, then say "Yeah, what she said!"

I completely agree with your comments about fandoms where you're not allowed to point out that their shit does stink. So I do respect the opinion of people who have said, I'm bored with waiting and I'm moving on. Maybe they'll come back, maybe not. You also make a good point about the personal aspect of it too. We really don't know those guys. We think they're nice guys, they appear to be genuinely nice human beings, but they are not our close personal friends, so to take affront at the fact they haven't kept in touch? Well, pretty damn silly.

I also relate to the just feeling concerned aspect. What if they're not getting along? What if they still can't stand to see each other again? What if Billie is having trouble writing?

But I'll be optimistic with you. I'm mentally planning for a Fall '08 release, with 2009 being a repeat of 2005, only this time I'll be around to enjoy the whole thing, not just coming in on the coattails at the end.

[canis-takahari.livejournal.com]

I'm afraid that for me, it wasn't even the wait for new material that caused me to drift away - I tend to get interested in something, and then gradually lose interest as I wear out the source. With Green Day, I loved the boys and the music and the community, and I still value every friend I've made in the fandom. But I found new things I liked, and I skipped fandoms, just like I always have. I did, however, also get bored of the music (I admit I haven't listened to GD in about, well, a year!) - new material might change that, it might not. GD remains one of my longest running fandoms, really.

While all the fandoms I've been involved are things I still love, they eventually go inactive. Coming back to something occasionally happens for me (I ALWAYS come back to Matthew Good), but I don't think I've been away from GD fandom long enough to feel any sort of nostalgia. I also think I exhausted anything about the boys I ever wanted to write.

It's late, and I'm rambling. Apologies!

[revid.livejournal.com]

Thanks for chiming in Helen. I hope you know that me calling you out was only intended as the highest order compliment. One of your fics might have been the very first Green Day slash fiction I'd ever read, and your Matthew Good cross-over remains in my top 5 favorite fics ever.

Kat and I will keep our fingers crossed that you'll come back! :-)

[canis-takahari.livejournal.com]

Oh, I did take it as a compliment, believe me! Thank you so much! I'm very flattered, and it saddens me greatly that I don't think I can write in Green Day anymore (at the moment, at least!). I loved the group that I met through the boys, and it remains the most influential fandom experience I've ever, ever had! :)

[my-own-beat-now.livejournal.com]

Ahhhh…..this topic. I’m going to see if I can “out comment” Barb :) I will admit to also having read through pretty much all the comments in that thread, with varying degrees of agreement and pissed-off-ness. My thoughts on this are kinda jumbled – I’m not really too sure what side of the fence I stand on. But I like to think that this isn’t really a black-and-white thing, so maybe that’s good…..?

In the little selfish side of my heart, I can agree to some extent with the posters who want more. I don’t agree that we are entitled to more, but I do want more. It would be nice to have some updates of any kind. Pretty much the only times we’ve seen them have been through “non-official” ways – photos of them doing dinner or in Italy on vacation, or doing the odd benefit-type thing. While I thrill to this, I also sometimes wonder – is this right? Is this an invasion? Honestly though, a few random updates on the official site wouldn’t make me not want to scan The Dirnt’s hand at high resolution for bands of gold, so I’m not going down the hypocrite road thank you very much :)

I do find it a bit odd, in today’s super-saturated marketplace, that they have kept soooooo quiet. It obviously has to be a choice, because it’s so opposite to the norm these days. With everything that happened to them during the 2 insane years that were AI, I think they’re entitled to it. They have families. They have kids. I respect that they want/need downtime. I love them and their music enough that I can listen to it over and over again. I don’t need anything new, I just want it.

In some ways their silence and refusal to play the celebrity/internet feed-the-frenzy game is what makes me love and respect them more. All that stuff is not them. And I don’t want them to change who they are because of what we want them to be. This is what makes them different and more pure and more honest for me than most other bands out there. They came from such a completely different scene, from such different beginnings than many other groups out there. It was always about the music, not about being famous. I hope that hasn’t changed for them, now that they are famous. Perhaps this is their way of saying it hasn’t. I don’t know. But even that argument only holds water for so long. I do think it would be smart of them to put a bit of effort – soon – into at least a photoshoot, some new pics, a few new interviews perhaps. Nothing huge, just a “hey, we’re still here – we’ll be back when we’re ready” kind of thing. Standing up for your beliefs and a DIY attitude are one thing – alienating people who truly cared is another. I don’t mind seeing a bunch of 14 year olds jump off the bandwagon and find another, but I don’t like hearing long time devoted fans being so down.

On another point (since I'm ranting :) - I also hope people - like random producers and nameless, faceless others - are just leaving poor Billie the fuck alone. I don't like the thought of a million opinions on what he/they should do next, and I hope he's strong enough to push them away and focus on what's in his head, and what he wants to write. Not what a lot of other people in the business think would be "a great follow up". *shakes fist at evil corporate bastards*

*whew*

[thirdbeatred.livejournal.com]

I'll be the last one jumping off the sinking ship. Put my name under this one as well! Try as I might, I can't even find any other fandoms that I get as excited by!

Anyway, I can understand other fans' frustration, but the long lull between albums happens between EVERY album and I've come to resign myself to this fact. I know that I'll/we'll be justly rewarded for our patience too. The last thing I would ever want the guys to do is rush the record and put out something that they don't love and believe in 100%.

I also want to agree with something my_own_beat_now said: In some ways their silence and refusal to play the celebrity/internet feed-the-frenzy game is what makes me love and respect them more. Yes! I actually do think that the long silent wait is part of the reason why I love them so much. I wouldn't want them to become another internet-obsessed band that feels like they have to give inane updates to their fans, just because.

I also want to comment on the we like to stay tight-lipped about everything thing. Anyone who understands the band knows this about them and it's kind of absurd to get angry about it. They've always had a tendency to close ranks and I think us fans should respect their right to privacy, if that's what they feel they need to do.

[revid.livejournal.com]

There will be a few of us who will not go gentle into that good night.

They always have stayed pretty much to themselves, true. But as the theme here seems to be, you can't blame a girl for wanting a little bit more.

[revid.livejournal.com]

Good way to put it: We're not entitled to more, but that doesn't mean we can't (or shouldn't) want more. I don't feel bad at all tracking down the candid shots. They are public figures to a certain extent, although I would draw the line at pics of them, say, taking their kids to school. But Mike outside after dinner at a Beverly Hills restaurant with his gf, or Billie at a Hannah Montana concert? Fair game.

I wonder what it must be like for the diehard Fall Out Boy fans who get the object of their obsession writing what he had for breakfast and the proto-lyrics for their next album on four different blogs. Talk about feeding a beast. And it would weird me out to no end if I thought Green Day read some of our ramblings, so I want some contact, but not that much, I guess. It is sad when the diehards lose faith though.

[tasyfa.livejournal.com]

I have a lot of thoughts on this topic, that I just don't have the brain power to make cohesive tonight. I will say one thing: I don't believe the tight-lippedness is out of disrespect for fans or anyone else. I think that it is, simply, part of their necessary process in creating an album. Do I think it sucks? Well, yeah. But it wasn't unexpected and it isn't forever. I also think that the band is not fully aware that the total lack of news leads to worrying about the band's future, as opposed to recriminations of, "Aren't you done yet?" I don't know that they'd necessarily do anything differently were they so aware but I know that that concern colours my and most of the people I know's opinion of this extended media break.

[revid.livejournal.com]

I don't believe the tight-lippedness is out of disrespect for fans or anyone else. I think that it is, simply, part of their necessary process in creating an album.

I agree wholeheartedly with the first sentence. I guess they believe it's necessary, although I don't know why. We're not talking about wanting daily updates or anything extreme though.

I also think that the band is not fully aware that the total lack of news leads to worrying about the band's future...

This is probably true as well.

I'd love to read your thoughts when you have the chance to put them in writing.